subreddit:

/r/asoiaf

95

I started the books in October 2022 and I am proud to say I am caught up to ASOIAF!

I am excited that I actually get to read the posts on this sub now. I was hesitant on doing so until I had caught up. I still have Fire and Blood to read.

Something about the prologue of ADWD just left me putting the book down after reading it. It was very brutal and insightful to Bran’s story.

The book left me wondering (still) about Varamyr Six Skins and his transition to the pack. Will he truly lose himself to the beast, or will Bran speak to him possibly in the future now that Summer is the alpha?

There were a lot of chapters that left an impact on me, and I was curious which of those had impacted other readers. Cheers!

all 117 comments

InGenNateKenny

45 points

3 months ago

The Jon chapter where that piece of trash Janos Slynt gets beheaded and The Ghost of Winterfell (Theon) chapter. Gripping in different ways.

Front-Shock-5261[S]

12 points

3 months ago

Yeah Jon delivering justice for Ned was epic. The ghost of Winterfell really had me thinking about the old gods, and I think they chose Theon for something.

DeuceBuggalo

4 points

3 months ago

Wow I did not make the Ned justice connection, I like that scene even more now

Wishart2016

1 points

3 months ago

Wasn't Slynt's death in Feasts?

No_Prize_120

4 points

3 months ago

Nah. We only see the wall from Sam's perspective in Feast (if I'm not mistaken). Dance has Jon's POV of beheading Slynt

Eris590

72 points

3 months ago

Eris590

72 points

3 months ago

Quentyn's last chapter. Im still not over that "oh".

Bran's last chapter is a close second tho.

Honourable mentions to:

  • The Lady Dustin and Theon interaction
  • Victarion I
  • Both Arya chapters (especially the last one)

[deleted]

25 points

3 months ago

Bran's last chapter might be my favorite in the entire series

CatchCritic

11 points

3 months ago

CatchCritic

The Thing That Came In The Night

11 points

3 months ago

The moon was a crescent, thin and sharp as the blade of a knife.

lukeshields42

4 points

3 months ago

Can you remind me what happens in this chapter?

Mammoth-Foundation52

3 points

3 months ago

Jojenpaste

Front-Shock-5261[S]

15 points

3 months ago

Lady Dustin and Theon was interesting but I am still somewhat confused as to what her endgame is.

Victarion is not stopping and I am sort of here for it. His story took a complete turn once he acquired a Wizard.

Bannedbutnotbroken

37 points

3 months ago

Bannedbutnotbroken

Sunfyre the true “LOYAL”

37 points

3 months ago

The Griffin Reborn

Front-Shock-5261[S]

14 points

3 months ago

Yes! Jon Connington is making it look easy haha.

Gudson_

3 points

3 months ago

Such a good chapter, when I finished to read this one I felt that ASOIAF was finally going to the end of the story.

[deleted]

21 points

3 months ago

Congrats on finishing!

The prologue of ADWD is great. GRRM has a lot of great horror writing in the series, and I think that prologue might be one of the best examples. The atmosphere is so eerie and otherworldly, imagining Varamyr and poor Thistle while the dead are walking in the frozen landscape.

Something you might see on this sub, or in the fandom in general, is some level of division about Dany’s chapters in ADWD. Personally, I really liked them, and actually they’re some of my favorite Dany chapters in the whole series. The chapter at the fighting pits, and her flight with Drogon, is one of my favorite scenes I’ve ever read. I remember getting chills the first time I read it. I feel dorky calling it “awesome,” but really that feels like the best word, it’s such a great moment.

Rom839

4 points

3 months ago

Rom839

4 points

3 months ago

I agree. Her game and dance chapters are my favorite.

Front-Shock-5261[S]

4 points

3 months ago

Yeah Daeny was flip flopping with morals and I can see why there would be division on this sub. I just felt exhausted for her, getting small victories here and there but never feeling that she was making true progress.

CoofBone

34 points

3 months ago

Just a small moment. But in the chapter where Ser Barristan arrests Hizdar, I love when the narration calls him Barristan the Bold

SirJasonCrage

30 points

3 months ago

SirJasonCrage

We smell your fear!

30 points

3 months ago

Man I fucking love that fight.

The first time you read that fight, it's a showdown of champions, Khrazz doing all the awesome stuff and Barristan going toe to toe with him.

The second time you read it though... it's an unruly kid getting spanked by an elder, lol.

George literally spends two paragraphs detailing the skill and speed of Khrazz and Barristan a) does not even break a sweat, b) thinks about whether or not to call Khrazz a "Ser" despite him not being a knight, so he's not even concentrating and then c) "decides" to end the fight.

Like, he could have made that decision whenever he wanted to, but he's noble enough to give the poor guy a bit of a fight first.

BarristanTheB0ld

17 points

3 months ago

I love that fight! A 60-something year old mops the floor with a man in his prime, who fights and kills people for a living

Zany30

8 points

3 months ago

Zany30

8 points

3 months ago

"Take off that armor!"

Yeah, I'm sure you're both going to stop fighting, Barristan is going take off his armor and then you're going to resume the fight. lol

LovecraftianLlama

6 points

3 months ago

I think that line actually provides a lot of insight into the differences between a ‘pit fighter’ and a ‘real fighter’ that are woven throughout Barristan’s thoughts. Of course they’re not going to stop the fight for Barry to do a costume change…but the fact that Khrazz actually thinks that is a reasonable thing to say says a lot about the way he views the fight.

Front-Shock-5261[S]

19 points

3 months ago

Barristan chapters had me hooked. I felt like they always ended to soon lol.

AnIgnorablePerson

15 points

3 months ago

I loved Davos chapters, specially the second one. It had a court room vibe, and the side of the higher power refusing to (or pretending to) accept the truths, Davos calling the Freys liars in their faces, the outburst of young yet brave Wylla, and finally, a massive cliff hanger, that chapter was a great package to me.

Front-Shock-5261[S]

2 points

3 months ago

I nearly forgot about Davos. Im gonna have to reread his chapters again now because the characters introduced in his were so foreign I was thrown off, (Foreign to me not Westeros)

AnIgnorablePerson

4 points

3 months ago

Well, his chapters showed a different side of the ongoing war, where the Manderlys represented a small scenario of the houses of the North, and theur loyalty to the Starks. And let's not forget, these chapters are important setup for TWoW, where both Davos and Rickon gonna play a vital role in the overall story I presume.

LovecraftianLlama

2 points

3 months ago

This is kind of off topic for the thread, but in one of Jon’s chapters, Mellisandre is talking about casting glamours and men seeing what they expect to see. One of the examples she uses of an object that enhances the glamour is “a bag of finger bones”. We know that Davos lost his luck, but do we have any idea what she meant with that statement? Does someone else have his fingers? Was he using them as some sort of talisman before he lost them, or is someone else using them now? On my first read through, I thought that they’d been used on the man who Manderly has executed in Davos’ place…but now I’m not so sure.

monkepope

12 points

3 months ago

What I love about ADWD is just how tense it is. Theon’s chapters in winterfell with the Freys, northmen, and boltons at each other’s throats; asha with stannis’ men marching through the cold to their deaths; dany and barristan figuring out wtf is going on in meereen; jon at the wall and the impending mutiny. I think it’s my third or fourth favorite in the series (toss-up with it and ACOK) but I just love how GRRM really found a knack for atmosphere in those last 2 books

Front-Shock-5261[S]

3 points

3 months ago

Agreed, AFFC had me a bit confused and excited to learn to the new characters but overall it felt slow to me, ADWD took off in full speed and I cant recall one chapter that I couldn’t get into. I do plan to reread at some point having a better understanding of the characters now.

YKNothingJS

10 points

3 months ago

I'll be the first to say that I haven't always liked Daenerys (and I still don't, not completely) and that it was less about her and more the fact that I LOATHED her fanbase, especially on the show side of the fandom. But before I get lost in that tangent, I will end it with this: my feelings on her have flip-flopped a lot--both show!Dany and book!Dany alike--especially recently.

That hasn't stopped Daenerys X from consistently being one of my favorites in the series, period. From the first time I read the books to now, it has always ranked high. Jesus everything about it works for me, especially when it's put into the context of the entire book. Her arc is about giving up her agency, morals and desires to compromise with people that she finds completely detestable and becoming more and more miserable trying to please these people because she needs Meereen to succeed in order to prove that Slaver's Bay can thrive without slavery. Then she finally gets fed up, peaces the fuck out and reaches the grasslands where she has a moment of serious self-reflection where everyone--Viserys, Jorah, Quaithe, the whole pack--is looking at her and just going "Girl, have you done lost your mind? What the fuck are you doing trying to bargain with these people?"

It's a catharsis, truly. Having her accept that dragons plant no trees and that it was a mistake trying to negotiate with slavers who were NEVER going to be truly satisified from the beginning was so satisfying. This chapter never fails to make me excited for Winds of Winter because I truly want to see where she goes from here.

Front-Shock-5261[S]

4 points

3 months ago

I can agree with you a bit there but sort of opposite. I was probably part of that fan base that you loathed in the beginning lol. After reading, while Daeny definitely makes some great choices, she sometimes seems to sort of float around, and I get it, she is inexperienced and she trusts her advisors. More towards the beginning of the ACOK she is looking for safety so her Dragons can grow so she had to plant trees for the long game. I think she just got caught up in the politics and before she knew it her dragons were now a formidable size. They outgrew her in a way. She lost sight of things because the 3 omens.

That is just my take and I may have a different one in a month or two. Im glad I can explore with everyone now lol.

YKNothingJS

5 points

3 months ago

That is just my take and I may have a different one in a month or two.

That's what it's all about. I can't tell you how much times my feelings on characters have changed over time. Anyway I forgot to say it in my initial post because I was caught up raving about the chapter but congrats on catching up

Front-Shock-5261[S]

3 points

3 months ago

Thank you, thank you!

Rom839

1 points

3 months ago

Rom839

1 points

3 months ago

God. That may be my favorite chapter in the series. I get huge shivers everytime.

shsluckymushroom

10 points

3 months ago

shsluckymushroom

The White Wolf

10 points

3 months ago

Cersei’s walk of shame is really rough to read, but it’s such a well written chapter. Left me feeling sick but really stuck with me. You really felt like you were there being paraded around naked along with Cersei, and her descent into despair and the breaking of her pride was hard for me to read - even if she’s a horrible person, the misogynistic treatment she suffers here really gets to me.

Theon’s last chapter and Asha’s last one are both also fantastic. Theon’s final chapter might be my favourite.

It’s either that or Bran III. Masterfully written. Apparently George is having a lot trouble with Bran in Winds and with chapters this perfect, I can see why. Bran III is so unsettling and eerie and frightening to read, genuinely one of the best ASOIAF chapters and a contender for a perfect one imo.

tecphile

4 points

3 months ago*

As much as S5 was a trainwreck, they absolutely nailed the WoA. A few wks ago, I rewatched that scene and it literally goes on for ages. I counted almost five minutes between when the walk begins and when it ends. It’s a slow, tortorous sequence that starts off as

Good! She deserves this!!

and ends as

Oh god! Let it end! Just run into the Keep so you'll finally have some privacy

The direction and Lena Headey were absolutely stellar.

It’s about as close to book-accurate as they got after S4.

She did not feel beautiful, though. She felt old, used, filthy, ugly. There were stretch marks on her belly from the children she had borne, and her breasts were not as firm as they had been when she was younger. Without a gown to hold them up, they sagged against her chest. I should not have done this. I was their queen, but now they've seen, they've seen, they've seen. I should never have let them see. Gowned and crowned, she was a queen. Naked, bloody, limping, she was only a woman, not so very different from their wives, more like their mothers than their pretty little maiden daughters. What have I done? (Cersei II, aDwD)

fishhhhbone

9 points

3 months ago

fishhhhbone

Its your tongue to do with as you please

9 points

3 months ago

Theon escaping winterfell was such a good chapter. I was so stressed reading it the first time

laserbeam26

9 points

3 months ago

My favorite is the jon chapter where he reads the letter and then dies. Probably one of the greatest cliffhangers of all time

EDIT: You should definitely read the winds of winter sample chapters now because they’re easily some of the best in the whole series

Front-Shock-5261[S]

3 points

3 months ago

The link isnt appearing here, probably a sub rule, but I do see it in my inbox. Thanks ill read tomorrow!

Front-Shock-5261[S]

2 points

3 months ago

I would love to, where can I find them

Aemondilguercio

0 points

3 months ago

by definition that is an ugly and pointless cliffhanger. or do you think Jon will definitely leave the story? no !? so it's not a good cliffhanger

laserbeam26

2 points

3 months ago

I have no idea what will happen. I assume jon is going to come back at some point but the wall seems like a powder keg thats about to explode

Aemondilguercio

2 points

3 months ago

my idea is that Jon Snow will be unconscious (so in my opinion he doesn't even die) for a chapter, a chapter in which he will be in Ghost or a dream chapter, or both, the next chapter he will already be in charge of the army of wildings . How did I come to this conclusion? the timeline, we already know that there will be chapters set before the Jon Adwd chapter where he gets stabbed, Theon and Asha for example. We have already seen a mirror chapter between affc and Adwd , Sam/Jon . So I say, after the chapters before the events of Jon adwd, we will have a mirror chapter of Melisandre where she will experience the events of Jon adwd, pink letter arrival and stabbing, and then she will intervene right away. Then Jon Snow's Dream Chapter. Jon Snow vs Boltons , Stannis , Theon , Asha and Mance Rayder come in behind the Boltons . Jon in the Riverlands mid book or earlier.

strongbad4u

8 points

3 months ago

The godswood scene in " a ghost in winterfell" gave me almost a proxy religious experience in Theon remembering his name.

jonathan1230

4 points

3 months ago*

Great one! That’s Bran influencing the world for the better…

strongbad4u

2 points

3 months ago

Did you mean Bran here? I agree, If and when we get winds I hope he confirms it was Bran.

jonathan1230

1 points

3 months ago

Yes Ty for the edit

strongbad4u

2 points

3 months ago

Haha no prob

Wishart2016

12 points

3 months ago

The Epilogue

The North Remembers

Theon in Winterfell

Asha with Stannis

Barristan and Dany in Meereen

Sam in Oldtown

Sansa in the Vale

CatchCritic

3 points

3 months ago

CatchCritic

The Thing That Came In The Night

3 points

3 months ago

Don't forget Tyrion, Jon, Bran, and Arya. Dance is too stacked lol.

Wishart2016

1 points

3 months ago

Forgot about Jon and Tyrion. I'm not too fond of Bran and Arya chapters, though.

Gudson_

3 points

3 months ago

Sam in Oldtown

Sansa in the Vale

These chapters are in AFFC.

JohnRawls85

7 points

3 months ago

I love the chapters set in the north, especially the ones that tell about the march to Winterfell, Asha's POV, for that matter.

EndGamer93

6 points

3 months ago

For me, Davos III has always been a highlight:

"Take his head, rather," suggested Ser Jared. 'Or let him meet me on the field of honor."

"What would a Frey know of honor?" Davos threw back.

Definitely one of the more notable comebacks in the series (so far).

Davos is underrated, if you ask me. Given the circumstances, he was absolutely fearless in Manderly's court.

GuiTheGuy

6 points

3 months ago

My favorite chapter was The Watcher.

Areo Hotah POV.

The story about how Water Gardens came to be and the passage about Daenerys realization that all children looked the same, deserving of love and long life. How Doran explains that it's easy for him to call his spears but in the end children pay the price.

Amidst war and Kings and Lords calling their banners to fight wars, we have Doran thinking of his people before waging war against anyone. It felt as a fresh take to me.

Ellaria talking about the cycle of vengeance and where does it ends.

Also her talking about the skull or vengeance would not comfort her nor bring her lover back to life.

Doran asking if it was his shame or glory that none of his people had died in the war up until his brother.

hotpieazorahai1

6 points

3 months ago

Dany X blew my mind the first (and second) time I read it

Front-Shock-5261[S]

1 points

3 months ago

You must forgive kind sir, I am new to [reading] the sub? Daeny X?

hotpieazorahai1

4 points

3 months ago

Sorry, Dany’s last chapter in ADWD

Front-Shock-5261[S]

3 points

3 months ago

Yeah I wish we could have had that in the show. The imagery you can conjure from the writing is awesome, but to see a scene like that would be cool too.

Kergen85

3 points

3 months ago

The 10th Dany chapter, X is 10 is roman numerals.

Front-Shock-5261[S]

3 points

3 months ago

That was actually my first thought but I didn’t want to look dumb. Ty!

pushing_pillars

2 points

3 months ago

I think her last chapter in AGOT

Front-Shock-5261[S]

1 points

3 months ago

Gotcha, I had seen the show before I started reading, it was a great chapter but having known the ending it didn’t quite have the magic as it could have.

Kergen85

4 points

3 months ago

It's been awhile since I read Dance, and there are so many good chapters, but off the top of my head I'd say the prologue. I just really loved how vivid George's descriptions were, I really felt like I was there, and Varamyr made for a really compelling POV.

Front-Shock-5261[S]

3 points

3 months ago

The detail of what was going through his mind was scarring to me. Do you think he will just become one with the beast like the other wargs, or do you think he will still linger for Bran?

Kergen85

3 points

3 months ago

I think if One Eye survives that Varamyr will eventually just become one with the beast, but I feel like he could also die before that happens. Having a member of Summer's pack be a warg feels like one of those details that George leaves open for himself, and if he wants to just leave it be he can, or if he comes up with a good idea for it he can play that piece.

Aemondilguercio

5 points

3 months ago

The Ghost of Winterfell

TheNorthRemebers2020

6 points

3 months ago

Davos being let go by Manderly - 'The North remembers, and the mummers farce is almost done. My son is home' gives me actual chills

GreatJakeUmber

4 points

3 months ago

GreatJakeUmber

Dance with me then

4 points

3 months ago

Daznaks Pit. Dany whipping Drogon and then riding him just amazing. Also Bran II and III are both magical

residentfan02

4 points

3 months ago

Cersei II, the walk is the best moment of the book in my opinion.

strongbad4u

3 points

3 months ago

It's always been my opinion that if that chapter could have been fit into a feast for crows The book would have been much more widely acclaimed.

Same goes for the single Jamie chapter. I know they are meant to kind of parallel each other in dance... And I know that the chapters are a lot farther ahead in the timeline... Butt feast would have just felt so much more complete if those two chapters were in the book

CatchCritic

4 points

3 months ago

CatchCritic

The Thing That Came In The Night

4 points

3 months ago

A Ghost in Winterfell, followed by Davos' last chapter, Jon's Last chapter, and Bran'slast chapter. There's so many good ones, though. The book is stacked.

Gudson_

4 points

3 months ago

The epilogue is the best chapter by far imo

benjaming74

4 points

3 months ago

bridge of dream Mother Rhoyne runs how she will

Ser-Marcus

3 points

3 months ago

Ser-Marcus

A King who still cared

3 points

3 months ago

Very hard for me to pick but it’s between The Ghost in Winterfell and Theon but tbh tho both Victarion chapters are also so enjoyable too so I guess they’re my honorable mentions.

SXTR

3 points

3 months ago

SXTR

3 points

3 months ago

The prologue chapter is my favorite too. So fucking well written

Front-Shock-5261[S]

2 points

3 months ago

That chapter will stick with me for a very long time. He almost chose the female dog.

Zany30

3 points

3 months ago

Zany30

3 points

3 months ago

Of all the chapters probably The Watcher.

Dorne is my favorite realm and I'm a huge fan of Doran.

Not too much happens in that chapter really, but the interaction between Doran, Arianne, and the sand snakes always get to me.

raff7

3 points

3 months ago

raff7

3 points

3 months ago

Tyrion travelling through the Rhoyne on the shy maiden.. not sure why but it was my favourite chapter in the whole series

Mammoth-Foundation52

3 points

3 months ago

The Prologue. I love all of the prologues and epilogues, but that Varamyr chapter was a GOLD MINE of lore/world building. The foreshadowing for both Jon and Bran sets up their stories in Dance and Winds really well, not to mention the fact that ANY concrete explanation for how magic works in the series is always welcome.

Varamyr’s explanation of 2nd lives for skin changers sets up Jon’s death and eventual resurrection really well. Not just that it’ll happen, but the details of how Jon’s time in Ghost will change him. Aside from that, Bran casually breaking 2 of the 3 skin-changer taboos (and likely working his way towards that last one) is some of the best subtle horror in the series.

“I’ll give it back, like I always do” makes my skin crawl. He’s a little kid with god-like powers who doesn’t truly grasp the full ramifications of what he’s doing to Hodor.

Front-Shock-5261[S]

2 points

3 months ago

I meant to get to this sooner, well said! and I am glad to know other people choose the prologue as well.

No_Prize_120

5 points

3 months ago

I love all Jon's chapters in Dance. I can reread them multiple times. It was fascinating for me to see Jon trying to handle his night's watch brothers, Stannis and his men, Mellisandre, Selyse and her men, wildlings, and giants. Phew. And all while trying to defeat Others, manage food and other resources. I loved his viewpoint. I'm not saying he took all the right decisions. He sent everyone who would have supported away from him and never really tried to develop good relationships with his brothers. He assumed people would just listen to him because he was the Lord commander. I mean, even Ned who had the privilege of being a Stark, made sure he was understood by his people. What was Jon thinking? But he tries his best and I loved him for that. I could feel his heart break when he gets to know his little sister will marry Ramsay. I could feel his hope when they tell him a girl has arrived on a dying horse. And even though I was confused at the end about his thought process, I got goosebumps when he said he was going south to fight Ramsay. Another moment where I got goosebumps was when he said nights watch oath is to guard the realms of men which includes wildlings. As you can see, I love Jon. So I loved his chapters. And even though we may never get another book, I really can't wait to read his storyline in twow

LeberechtReinhold

5 points

3 months ago

I mean, even Ned who had the privilege of being a Stark, made sure he was understood by his people. What was Jon thinking?

Not like Jon has much more options, he's in a reaaaally bad position.

No_Prize_120

0 points

3 months ago

I feel like if he had explained his choices more and kept everyone on loop, the murder wouldn't have happened

Front-Shock-5261[S]

1 points

3 months ago

For a moment I didn’t think he would die like he did in the show. I figured it would happen after Hardhome (thanks show.) It still snook up on me all the same. One of his thoughts basically said it all, “They know nothing Ygritte, and they will never learn”

No_Prize_120

1 points

3 months ago

Tell me about it. The shocked "Why" as he feels the first knife. Shivers

CaveLupum

5 points

3 months ago

The Epilogue. Other than ASoS epilogue's revelation of Lady Stoneheart, this epilogue was my favorite. After a Small Council meeting where sanity seemed to prevail, Varys suddenly reappears with a bang. With Little Bird help Pychelle is dispatched. And we luxuriate in the Spidery discussion with the dying Kevan, especially about Aegon and his progress. This chapter teases the palate for delicious new Cersei mistakes and triumphs of Aegon in TWoW .

Front-Shock-5261[S]

2 points

3 months ago

Varys is SO MUCH different in the books that rereading would do me a service. I get it he is the spider but I don’t know how he plans to navigate after that, but damn am I ready to find out.

Rom839

2 points

3 months ago

Rom839

2 points

3 months ago

I know lots of folks hate on Danny's last chapter (shat har har), but I genuinely find it very powerful and intense to see her choosing blood after all the buildup.

I think if the books were organized differently (like, if dance was split into northern and esossi chapters, so there was room for the battle before we got that Danny chapter) it would be remembered more fondly.

Rom839

2 points

3 months ago

Rom839

2 points

3 months ago

Ooh, I also love the Theon's chapters in Winterfell, and when he meets his sister that's one of the most powerful moments in the series.

GodofCOC-07

2 points

3 months ago

Welcome to the waiting zone.

dblack246

6 points

3 months ago

dblack246

🏆 Best of 2022: Alchemist Award

6 points

3 months ago

The Dragontamer. Quentyn is my second favorite character and I can't wait to see where his story takes him in Winds.

Front-Shock-5261[S]

8 points

3 months ago

Well his story might go somewhere, but not Quent lol. I am curious how Dorne responds. I think Doran will try to wed his daughter to Aegon (Young Griff.) That seems to always be Doran’s plan.

shsluckymushroom

3 points

3 months ago

shsluckymushroom

The White Wolf

3 points

3 months ago

Some people think Quentyn’s death isn’t definitive. Quent doesn’t die like others hit by dragon fire do, which is instantly. Quent actually describes the heat as a furnace wind which is the same way Dany describes Drogon’s breath and well, she’s not dead, and it is the exact same wording. There’s an ongoing theme in ASOIAF about how burned bodies can be faked, particularly in Dany’s story in Dance. Quent apparently died after three days, which again, is a bit unusual from our usual victims of dragon fire.

It’s possible this was one of Martin’s many fake out deaths (he has many lmao) and he simply didn’t get to add in the reveal bc he had to cut a lot of stuff from Dance.

I’m not saying I do 100% believe he’s alive but it’s an intriguing theory, and I think him being alive is more interesting at least then him spending like 4-5 chapters just showcasing a ‘psych you thought you were a hero but you aren’t, adventure sucks and now you’re dead’ type thing.

Front-Shock-5261[S]

2 points

3 months ago

That is a interesting take. I am not quite sure I agree with it. I know he had the blood, but I felt as if his story had accomplished something. Hizdahr wanted to kill the dragons and would have if not for Quent. Between Connington and Aegon starting the show in Westeros and Quent freeing the dragons the time feels ripe for Daeny to move upon her return. She will have information, she will see the fear Viserion and Rhaegal are instilling amongst the Yunkai’i, and we cant forget the Brazen Beasts. Everything seems like it should be set in motion. Regardless it seems like a cool theory, and I cant rule out GRRM doing some crazy shit like that haha.

shsluckymushroom

3 points

3 months ago

shsluckymushroom

The White Wolf

3 points

3 months ago

His story did accomplish freeing the dragons but idk, I’m just not convinced all that time was needed. The general consensus on Quent’s story is that it’s a subversion of the hero’s journey where Quent realizes at the end he wasn’t the hero, but idk I’ve always felt like that was a weird thing for Martin to do five books into a series that constant subverts the fantasy genre, like readers this far in should already know what’s up and not need such a basic lesson. Plus a lot of space was devoted to Quentyn in a book that, like I said, already suffered major cuts (like 150 pages got cut and had to be pushed to Winds) and I think it’d be weird for the Quentyn stuff to even make the cut at that point.

If he’s alive that is a lot more interesting. He’d be burned and scarred and a very different man. And we get a lot of buildup about his relationship with Arianne and how she sees him as a rival, yet we never see them interact which seems a shame. I also think Doran was way too cautious in his plan with Quentyn and Quent paid the price for it, and I’d like to see the pay off for that personally, in an interaction between them.

I think a lot of readers just dislike the theory bc they think Winds is going to crammed enough and doesn’t need more plots and they think Quentyn’s is over but idk I’m game for more if that’s the way Martin wants to go. I think it’s a plausible theory even if I’m not sure Martin is going for it.

Front-Shock-5261[S]

2 points

3 months ago

Like I said an interesting take, and even before I got to your last paragraph I was thinking ‘how could there be room for that.’ So you might be on to something there lol. Yet as you mentioned Arianne is still in the mix, I think Doran will offer her to Aegon, or she will offer herself, that would bring Dorne into the fold and Aegon controls the southeast.

Damn it sucks waiting on Winds lol, I really feel for everyone who has been waiting 10+ years.

shsluckymushroom

4 points

3 months ago

shsluckymushroom

The White Wolf

4 points

3 months ago

I’m not sure about Aegon…maybe, but Aegon is kinda sexist lol and I don’t think Arianne will be into that (his attitude that Dany would just drop anything to marry him and his shock when Tyrion says she might you know think for herself and his dismissal of Cersei as a threat by calling her just ‘a woman’ kinda point that way) Arianne is pretty progressive and into being treated with respect, plus her whole arc in Feast is about her wanting to rule Dorne as her birthright so I would think it’d be weird for her to give that up to be essentially a broodmare to Aegon to have his royal babies lol

I myself am one of those fans orz…I have been waiting since Dance released. Been a rough more then a decade lmao

Front-Shock-5261[S]

2 points

3 months ago

Very fair points, and damn im sorry haha. Hopefully November is the real deal.

LovecraftianLlama

1 points

3 months ago

Ugh to your last point, same. I preordered Dance and I’ve been languishing for years lmao.

dblack246

1 points

3 months ago

dblack246

🏆 Best of 2022: Alchemist Award

1 points

3 months ago

Rorschach113

3 points

3 months ago

We saw him burn alive from his own POV.

dblack246

-1 points

3 months ago

dblack246

🏆 Best of 2022: Alchemist Award

-1 points

3 months ago

We saw Arya have an axe take her in the back of the head. Didn't kill her.

We saw Davos lose consciousness underwater. Didn't kill him.

We saw Tyrion lose consciousness underwater. Didn't kill him.

Seeing a pov in peril isn't seeing them dead.

You saw Quentyn burn. You didn't see him die. Nor did you see how bad the fire was. Nor did you see the source of the fire.

Based on what you saw, you jumped to the conclusion he died. Don't feel bad. Barristan made the same mistake.

Rorschach113

6 points

3 months ago

Lol you’re gonna be so disappointed if the next book ever comes out. Keep your tinfoil.

dblack246

-1 points

3 months ago

dblack246

🏆 Best of 2022: Alchemist Award

-1 points

3 months ago

It's not tinfoil. It's careful and perceptive reading to avoid making bad conclusions. But careful reading isn't everyone's thing I've learned.

But I'll bookmark this and we can compare notes after Winds.

Rorschach113

6 points

3 months ago

I mean, it is tinfoil. It’s ludicrous on it’s face. Ned Stark is more likely to be alive, since we didn’t see his perspective as his head was cut off. Quentyn was a great character, but you’re ignoring his great and tragic character arc in favor of turning asoiaf into your own personal conspiracy theory. We saw the source if the fire - a dragon. We saw the fire burning all of him. He saw the fire burning all of him. As Poorquentyn said, “If you think that we’re supposed to be going “aha!” while reading that, rather than, say, sobbing our lungs out, then you don’t know how stories work.”

dblack246

1 points

3 months ago

dblack246

🏆 Best of 2022: Alchemist Award

1 points

3 months ago

We saw the source if the fire - a dragon. 

You are wrong about that. We never see fire come from the dragon.

but you’re ignoring his great and tragic character arc in favor of turning asoiaf into your own personal conspiracy theory. 

Every reader has a subjective opinion on what the story arc or narrative point is. That you've failed to see other possibilities that I have doesn't mean I've missed the point. You've decided what the purpose was and because you can't see it going further, you decide he's dead.

Ned Stark is more likely to be alive, since we didn’t see his perspective as his head was cut off.

No we just get confirmation from many eyewitnesses such as Sansa, Cersie, Joffrey, Yoren, Sandor, Varys and Slynt. Then we see the head in Sansa's pov.

Compare that to Barristan who didn't witness the event live and is looking at a body that can't be identified.

With apologies to Poorquentyn, what's important here is how George's stories work. And his stories work by placing a pov in danger like the examples I gave before to misdirect less careful readers.

Sometimes with POVs like Eddard and Cat, there is a cutaway before death. We then have to confirm death via other reliable sources. I've listed those for Eddard and Cat's death was clearly revealed later.

There is no reliable report on Quentyn dying. Anyone who knows how this author writes wouldn't treat this as closed.

But if everyone could pick out the clues, this would be less a reward for we careful readers.

Rorschach113

3 points

3 months ago

What about the bit with the fire burning all of him? If the fire somehow came from somewhere besides the dragon, he’s still fully on fire.

Budraven

3 points

3 months ago

Budraven

A thousand bloodshot eyes and one

3 points

3 months ago

"Quentyn Martell died this morning, just before the dawn."

After the girl was gone, the old knight peeled back the coverlet for one last look at Quentyn Martell's face, or what remained of it. So much of the prince's flesh had sloughed away that he could see the skull beneath. His eyes were pools of pus. He should have stayed in Dorne. He should have stayed a frog. Not all men are meant to dance with dragons.

Took dragonflame to his face from his own perspective and his corpse is found from others perspective. He dead IMO.

dblack246

1 points

3 months ago*

dblack246

🏆 Best of 2022: Alchemist Award

1 points

3 months ago*

Is Barristan an eyewitness to Quentyn burning? No.

Can Barristan make a positive identification of the body that doesn't have a face? No.

Does it read anywhere in the Dragontamer pov, that dragonflame hit Quentyn? No.

He dead IMO.

That's fine. But your opinion is based on bad information from Barristan and an incorrect reading of the Dragontamer pov.

I didn't mean to scare you off by pointing out your error.

[deleted]

2 points

3 months ago*

[removed]

CidCrisis

2 points

3 months ago

CidCrisis

Consort of the Morning

2 points

3 months ago

The condescension is what gets me. Like enjoy your tinfoil, sure, but the constant "Well my take is the clearly correct one and the only reason you don't feel the same is because you don't have phenomenal Sherlock Holmes level deduction skills like me," starts to read like parody after a point lol.

WANDERING_1112

2 points

3 months ago

I want quentyn to be alive too but I struggle to see a scenario where a dance happens if he's alive. Your theory did convince me on it dblack.